Behind The Scenes – Q&A with Andrew Moore, Senior Director & UK Commercial Sector Lead, Currie & Brown, London.

Andrew reveals what was involved in ensuring 150 Holborn was built on time, to budget, and to standard.

Hello Andrew. Please can you explain what your role at Currie & Brown involves?

My role is cost management predominantly, but I also help and support the wider business development and client management. So, I work with developers right through to end users and I have a lot of commercial experience, not just building buildings from scratch, but from working with the people who occupy those buildings as well. It’s good to be able to add value, but also to be involved in the story.

Could you talk us through your contribution to the design and delivery of 150 Holborn?

The scheme had been developed about two years prior to me arriving on the project in 2016. And there were quite a few challenges at the pre-contract stage. My responsibility was to be accountable for the cost management team, to work closely with our project managers and employers agents, to make sure the building was built on time, to budget, and to the right quality.

Were there any key challenges you faced in delivering 150 Holborn on time, on budget, and to standard? You mentioned, for example, the pre-contract stage.

Yes, in 2016 the major challenge for me was that the planners had asked for an upgraded façade, and that impacted on the budget. So, we had a year’s delay while that got sorted out. 

Because we had to absorb a significant figure within the budget, we had to realign a number of the areas and make sure we were still optimising the budget to support the design we wanted. That called for some extensive value engineering while the job was still moving forward, so it was about keeping everybody focused, keeping emotions as positive as possible, and using those to drive the right outcomes

A year seems like a long time to resolve one planning condition.

It is a long time. Camden Council are particularly known for being very meticulous about how they go about planning permissions, and they had a lot of involvement in how the design would look. They weren’t keen on the original design put forward, specifically the cladding aesthetic, so that effectively had to be worked up with them to get through. No planning approval meant no building.

But worthwhile in the end?

Definitely. And, you know, this isn’t unique to Sidara (or Dar in those days), having to face these challenges, it happens with many different organisations, although I think it was the first one for Dar to do in this locality.

And thinking about the delivered building, what would you say you’re most proud of?

That when you walk through the door, either as an occupant here, or bringing guests in, or fellow consultants, or clients, you can be very proud of this home. It’s the best environment I’ve ever worked in, and I’m proud of being part of that journey.

I’m also proud that we delivered it within the agreed budget. We’d agreed the final account with the main contractor one week before practical completion, just before the first company moved in during January 2023.

Is that usual? Is that the norm?

No, it’s not. Normally you’re disputing items and there are run off meetings. But we managed to push hard and make sure the moving in was pleasant, with no commercial clouds hanging over the scheme. And that’s something to be proud of when you’ve got your peer group judging your performance. It’s about keeping your head high when you walk in on that first day without thinking, “This isn’t finished yet, this is unfinished business.”

Absolutely. Do you think the fact that it was a collaborative effort with our different member firms made the process easier?

It comes down to people. At the end of the day, it’s about finding a way of working with people, not getting upset because they’re passionate about something, respecting that, but equally finding some common ground. So, in many ways, it can be easier.

And those relationships have been sustained past the completion of this project into new opportunities as well. I’m proud to say I have very good relationships with my colleagues at Introba and Perkins&Will, and that’s another good outcome.

What would you say are the key lessons learned throughout the design and build process for clients and future projects?

I use this as an exemplar project, because not only do we advise and consult, we actually live those values, and this is the result of all that professional skill and expertise. It’s a great shop window for all of us and we use it to meet our fellow consultants and clients as well. It’s centrally located, it’s accessible, and very relevant.

I believe we’ve built something timeless and that’s very much focused on the occupants.

Prior to this being designed – and I’m talking prior to COVID and all those changes that have taken place since then – buildings were very much developer-led. And they were all about getting the most efficient floor plates.

Thoughts around occupants were starting to develop ten years ago, but they were still a bit woolly. 150 Holborn was totally focused on how the performance of the people inside would be enhanced by creating better relationships. With collaborations at the heart of everything.

And interestingly enough, the scoring mechanism for the main contractor to be on the next part of the design team and the client team reflected that. So, the highest scores were for the ethos and collaboration of that organisation. They didn’t have to be the cheapest, or the slickest, or the smartest. They just had to show an aptitude for being more collaborative than others.

That is an interesting carry-through, because that’s very much at the heart of Sidara ethos, isn’t it?

Yes, and the fact that the design was occupant-orientated is fascinating for me because now an office has to compete with hybrid and home working. It’s got to be a magnet to pull people in. No-one’s going to come into the office if the conditions are worse than at home. They need to come in because it supports the functions they want to do, and because it inspires them and helps them with relationship building.

So, I think the quality of 150 Holborn was really prescient. What we’re finding from developers now is that for them to compete in the market, they have to offer all the amenities we have here. Such as the world-class leading environmental accreditation, where businesses can be seen to be tackling climate change both in the premises that they occupy and as an outward sign of that commitment.

I think that quality aspect is now an expectation. No one wants to go into a secondary space that’s dated. They’re not interested. It’s got to be best in class, and this holds up as best in class.

How feasible would it be to take what we have at 150 and, if it’s not an option to have a new building, try to retrofit it for other commercial buildings?

That’s a very good point. All the schemes I’m currently engaged in in central London are retrofits of buildings built 25 – 30 years ago. They’re no longer fit for purpose and clients don’t want to spend money just to patch them up.

They want to actually change the whole way they’re orientated towards their occupants by putting in roof gardens (which we have), by having the top environmental accreditations (which we have), and by increasing active commuter facilities to help people when they come to the end of trip journeys (which we have). 

All the things we put into 150 Holborn from day one, clients are now seeking to retrofit into existing buildings to repurpose them. So they’re just as important as if it was a new build.

It’s really interesting to think how much the landscape has changed since 2014. Specifically in relation to technology like ground source heat pumps and sprinkler systems that we weren’t allowed to use because they were so new back then.

Yes, I’ve been working in this field for many years and I’ve seen it happen so often. Aspiring to do the right thing environmentally, but ultimately some other invention would come along, or there’d be a change. And I’ll give you an example: rushing into providing biomass boilers in buildings.

Today, there’s only one working model I know of in the whole of the city, and that’s in Southwark. Because shipping wood pellets around the city and getting these things to fire up just isn’t feasible. The carbon side wasn’t worked out properly but, despite the lack of scientific data, it was very cool to say, we’re moving from gas to wood pellets.

But it’s totally impractical. If you go to Southwark now, I don’t know if they use it still, they’ve probably gone all electric. It used to smell like a barbecue there because it wasn’t filtered particularly well. That’s one trend example where all the embodied carbon that went into putting in those systems has all been stripped out or been mothballed.

I think photovoltaics (PV) could go that way as well, because if you decarbonise the grid, why do you have to have PV on your building?

Another point about the technology was that this was the first job where we were wearing virtual reality headsets to see the modelling the architects produced. So, we could get our minds around some of the configurations in the building. And when we were coming to measure it and cost it, we weren’t just confronted with 2D plans sketches, we could actually walk around it.

It was good because there were certain details I couldn’t understand and that really helped. Although, I did feel a little bit seasick afterwards, but it was well worth doing.

Indeed. Now we’re moving into Day 2 at 150, what impact do you think the data we’re mining from the building sensors is going to have on a QS role?

It will help support us when we do value engineering. Rather than using the rule of thumb or listening to the loudest voice in the room, proper, scientific-grade, data-backed evidence will allow better decision making.

You know, the beauty of this is that we’ll know the bits that are really used as opposed to the bits we think are used. Over the years I’ve seen challenges to data. Such as people protecting a team by saying, we’re all in the office all the time, we need all these desks, we need all this space, we need the lights to be on. Then, when you look at the actual occupant data, there’s probably only a third of those people really there.

It’s a natural response from humans to try and plan against catastrophe, but then there’s using too many resources just for the “what if” scenario that might happen once in a blue moon. I think we should plan for the data that tells you what’s the norm, what’s normally happening, so we don’t over specify, we don’t over build.

And flexibility costs a lot of money if you build more space than you need – what are you going to do with it?

Or, if you plan for having the tightest environmental conditions, where it’s always got to be 21° regardless, why don’t you just ask people to wear a jumper or take a jumper off instead? Don’t try to make it such a precise building.

So, I’m looking forward to seeing what the data will show for 150 Holborn, both in terms of space and also what the environmental conditions are delivering. There were a few teething issues, but you’d expect that with new technology and a new building. Sometimes there’s an expectation that it’s going to work straight out of the box, but you have to think how far and how fast the overall technology business has come on. 20 years ago, we never expected any of it to work!

This is a big, sophisticated building with an interface between a building management system, which is the traditional way of doing it, and sensors, which are relatively new, and the two have to work together. They need to be understood by both parties who work in that industry.

We’ve put the backbone in, it’s now about the operation. It’s great if you’ve got a triple-A rated fridge, but if you leave the door open all the time, what use is that?

That’s a great example!

Yes, it’s straight from my sustainability colleague. At the end of the day, it’s always about behaviour.

Is there anything else you’d like to highlight?

I think the smart building is going to be the legacy here. And making that work really well for us as a business because we’re an occupier. So, it’s joining it up, from the actual investment in that system right through to being invested in it in terms of making it work.

And I’m excited to see that develop for the right outcomes, to support the real value being expressed in the building – who’s using it, which bits are they using.

One analogy is advertising, which used to be a mass activity where you’d just do as much as you could afford. Maybe 50% of it stuck if you were lucky, but the metrics weren’t that accurate. Now, because advertising is targeted to individuals, you can see an immediate response. And I’m thinking it’s the same with buildings. Rather than using the crude rule of thumb, we can now tailor it down to how the building’s being used, targeting your end user. 

I’m really interested in going from a sort of dumb building to a smart building that learns and adapts.

That’s very much looking towards our Day 2, with some of the data PARA has started to produce, and there are some interesting insights into office occupation. For example, canteen use on a Friday, and that the occupants kept turning down the lights because they were too bright.

Regarding the canteen, we have some good occupancy numbers coming in from Currie & Brown because we get the seniors as well as juniors coming in, there’s a symbiotic relationship. Juniors can help with the tech stuff, but they can also learn from the seniors how to be professional and move forward through their career.

And the cafe upstairs would normally be shut on Friday because there’s not enough footfall but, because they put a brunch on at 10:00am, we use that as an end of the week catch up.

The only problem now is that Introba are using it as well, so the queues are getting longer for the brunch.

That’s definitely a good thing!

Yes, and it’s one of those word of mouth things that show the behaviour. It’s a positive, a magnet to get people in. You can then put effort into those areas because you can see there’s a natural inclination, a nudge towards doing these things.

That’s absolutely on the nail for one of the reasons for everybody being in the same building. Brilliant.

The final thing for me is that it’s the first time in any building in my whole career I’ve ever put a water recycling facility. It’s one item that’s always been talked about, but always at the top of the list to get cut as the first saving.

We didn’t cut it out this time, I think, given the provenance of the client, and where water is a very vital commodity in their first region of influence. It was fascinating to see it go through without any struggle at all, and I think that will be an interesting one to watch going forward because water is a scarce resource and should always be treated as such.